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401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?


User ID: 163 (OP)
01-08-2010 08:51 PM

Posts: 17,775



Post: #1
401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
They want it all………



When the Santelli video is posted I'll add it to this thread and may pin it-this is HUGE news……..

The latest from Denninger.....



401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?

Now this is a guaranteed rape job.

In a short conversation this noontime that CNBC apparently has omitted from their archives (Why's that folks?) Rick Santelli was talking about a potential to effectively force money into the Treasury market.
Where would they get this?

From your 401k and IRA accounts!

From Businessweek:

The U.S. Treasury and Labor Departments will ask for public comment as soon as next week on ways to promote the conversion of 401(k) savings and Individual Retirement Accounts into annuities or other steady payment streams, according to Assistant Labor Secretary Phyllis C. Borzi and Deputy Assistant Treasury Secretary Mark Iwry, who are spearheading the effort.
Let me tell you what this is - it is an attempt to prevent the collapse of the Treasury market!

Forcing people into Treasuries as an "annuity" is exactly what Social Security allegedly is.  Except that Treasury stole the money that was collected in FICA taxes and spent it!

Guess what?  They'll do that here too - you're going to "invest" in Treasuries which of course are effectively a CALL option on the future taxing ability of the government.

The problem is that with an aging population and the immigrant problem (illegal immigrants that is), along with offshoring, the aggregate wage base will drop and thus this is the most dangerous investment of all!
What's even worse is that the government has intentionally suppressed Treasury yields during this crisis (and will keep doing so by various means, including manipulating the CPI - the "inflation index" - as they have for the last 30 years) so as to guarantee that you lose over time compared to actual purchasing power.

THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE SINCE THE 1980s AND IT WILL NOT CHANGE!
I have been talking about this for quite some time and recall writing a Ticker on it a year or more ago, although I can't find the entry immediately. 

Let me be clear:
I have no quarrel with the government mandating that you have a choice in your IRA or 401k account to buy short-duration Treasuries - much like the "G" fund that government and civil-service workers have.

But - "choices" have a funny way of turning into mandates, and this looks to me like a raw admission that Treasury knows it will not be able to sell its debt in the open market - so they will effectively tax you by forcing your "retirement" money to buy them!

This may be the only way for Treasury to hold down interest rates to something reasonable in the intermediate term, but doing so will instantaneously remove a major source of funding for the stock market - that is, the monthly and quarterly inflows from retirement accounts.
You can bet this won't be good for you, the ordinary American.
You can also bet that once such an "option" is made available there is a very high probability of the government doing things that either promote or simply don't stand in the way of another stock market crash as a means of "herding" your money into Treasuries - so they can blow it - all under the guise of being allegedly "safe".

Of course this begs the question - what is the government can't pay down the road when you retire, just as they can't pay on a forward basis with Social Security and Medicare?

This "proposal" can only mean one thing - Treasury smells smoke.  Maybe you should pay attention to what they're huffing!

PS: If the video shows up I'll update this ticker.... and if you're wondering what hammered the dollar starting at about 9:00 today, this is probably it.  Such a "move" would free the government to further abuse the issuance of Treasuries rather than take necessary austerity steps and places us even further down the road toward a political and economic collapse.

http://market-ticker.org/archives/1830-4...oming.html

Man will never be free until the last politician is strangled with the entrails of the last banker - Diderot
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MarkusMAXIMUS
Resident Observer
User ID: 2908
01-08-2010 08:55 PM

Posts: 3,849



Post: #2
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
Omega  Wrote:
But - "choices" have a funny way of turning into mandates, and this looks to me like a raw admission that Treasury knows it will not be able to sell its debt in the open market - so they will effectively tax you by forcing your "retirement" money to buy them!

I guess the Fed is getting tired of buying upwards of 80% of its own debt...

doomed

"The King asked his wise men for some single thing that would make him happy when he was sad, but sad when he was happy. They consulted and came back with a ring engraved with the message:
'This Too Shall Pass.'"
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User ID: 163 (OP)
01-08-2010 08:57 PM

Posts: 17,775



Post: #3
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
MarkusMaximus  Wrote:
I guess the Fed is getting tired of buying upwards of 80% of its own debt...

doomed

lol I see you saw that too........

Usually they posts Santelli's video's pretty quick if it never shows up well....there ya go........

doomedScream1

Man will never be free until the last politician is strangled with the entrails of the last banker - Diderot
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MarkusMAXIMUS
Resident Observer
User ID: 2908
01-08-2010 08:57 PM

Posts: 3,849



Post: #4
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
Omega  Wrote:
What's even worse is that the government has intentionally suppressed Treasury yields during this crisis (and will keep doing so by various means, including manipulating the CPI - the "inflation index" - as they have for the last 30 years) so as to guarantee that you lose over time compared to actual purchasing power.

I keep watch on CPI linked CDs...yields on those mothers jumped 100bps in less than one month....

Scream1

"The King asked his wise men for some single thing that would make him happy when he was sad, but sad when he was happy. They consulted and came back with a ring engraved with the message:
'This Too Shall Pass.'"
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User ID: 163 (OP)
01-08-2010 09:28 PM

Posts: 17,775



Post: #5
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
Cross posted from the ticker forum looks like they edited the video out and it won't be available here's a transcript from a member over there. If true looks like they flipped Santelli he's the guy that would usually tear them a new you know what........

Scream1Scream1

Transcript follows.....


I posted this almost verbatim transcript in the thread in Breaking, reposting it here for the benefit of the folks following it here:

For those who missed it, Rick said there was talk on the floor about this, it is a govt. request for comments. Here's my transcript of the main part, added bold to emphasize what he emphasized.

The floor is a bit abuzz. There is published reports out that I am getting from many of my sources about something the Obama administration is going to put towards a public comment period. This is very early in the process, but it goes something like this - avg Americans were hurt big during the big givebacks in their IRAs when the credit crisis pushed stocks down. So remember how IRAs are formulated, they are thinking of changing that and allowing more of an annuity scenario. Now if you think this thru what it means is instead of a bit of your paycheck going into equities every week, it will probably be going into things like Treasuries it would be a little bit lower return but it would be safer and this is very early but you want to pay attention to any new stories coming out about this annuity conversion they are going to put out for public comment.

Sue Herrera and Tyler Mathiesen comment about (a) isn't this the wrong time to go into treasuries since folks coming on CNBS are saying it is, and (b) people can already put their IRA monies into Treasuries if they want.

Rick responds: The difference is that it is going to be something that is going to be more of a large scale program a very simple one and more of a conversion as well. Like I said early stages, but the range of opinions is "hey it is not a bad idea" to very cynical that we are worried about who is going to buy treasuries ad infinitum.

Man will never be free until the last politician is strangled with the entrails of the last banker - Diderot
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MarkusMAXIMUS
Resident Observer
User ID: 2908
01-08-2010 09:31 PM

Posts: 3,849



Post: #6
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
Omega  Wrote:
If true looks like they flipped Santelli he's the guy that would usually tear them a new you know what........

Everything is for sale.

"The King asked his wise men for some single thing that would make him happy when he was sad, but sad when he was happy. They consulted and came back with a ring engraved with the message:
'This Too Shall Pass.'"
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Ikaika

User ID: 145
01-08-2010 09:39 PM

Posts: 13,435



Post: #7
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
There have been stories of the confiscation of your IRAs for two years.
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Saxon777
Eagle Wing Stretches
User ID: 1387
01-09-2010 02:20 AM

Posts: 9,940



Post: #8
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
Ikaika  Wrote:
There have been stories of the confiscation of your IRAs for two years.

I've warned people for years about 401ks and of course all they did was stick knives in my back talking about what a Woo Woo I was etc etc.

Yes, I was the "fool" telling them that they should be dumping their 401ks and buying that gold for $250/oz.

Who's the dumb ass now? chuckle

Faithful and True

Ophiuchus....The Great Serpent Wrestler and Tamer

Saxon Saxon and MORE Saxon---->Saxon's Writings Link
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vintagevixen
Registered User
User ID: 2866
01-09-2010 02:45 AM

Posts: 5,750



Post: #9
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
Kind of a related sentiment to your post Omega - last I heard that shooter in St. Louis was pissed about his retirement being lost and was involved with a class action lawsuit . Not saying he didn't have issues to begin with. However....

having said that, you know we will never in the US have the draft again because people took to the streets and seriously fought and made a difference. Times are different now though. Everyone is a fucking slave. But..

If they mess with people's pensions that have worked their entire lives in jobs that sucked (me for instance) well this could be the new trigger.


A thought.

vv
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Showtime
Registered User
User ID: 2348
01-09-2010 02:53 AM

Posts: 1,584



Post: #10
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
As went the social security funds, so will go your IRA/401k's....But don't worry, when it too is tapped out and missing, there will some nice IOU's in there, California style....

These people are completely lawless and out of control. They have and will do ANYTHING to keep the tap flowing, no matter how insane. Makes me wonder if they aren't just doing wringing motions to finish up their last minute plans...


I read up on a poor guy who lived thru Argentina's collapse of the 90's.....I didn't know they too had a "cash for clunkers" program!?!

This is end game shit.....

The people really are governed by their consent, and my consent is wearing thin.

--Me
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User ID: 163 (OP)
01-09-2010 02:55 AM

Posts: 17,775



Post: #11
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
Showtime  Wrote:
As went the social security funds, so will go your IRA/401k's....But don't worry, when it too is tapped out and missing, there will some nice IOU's in there, California style....

These people are completely lawless and out of control. They have and will do ANYTHING to keep the tap flowing, no matter how insane. Makes me wonder if they aren't just doing wringing motions to finish up their last minute plans...


I read on a poor guy who lived thru Argentina's collapse of the 90's.....I didn't know they too had a "cash for clunkers" program!?!

This is end game shit.....

Yup I read that doods stuff too unbelievable we are reliving it here!!!!

doomed

Man will never be free until the last politician is strangled with the entrails of the last banker - Diderot
Quote this message in a reply


User ID: 163 (OP)
01-09-2010 02:57 AM

Posts: 17,775



Post: #12
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
Showtime  Wrote:
As went the social security funds, so will go your IRA/401k's....But don't worry, when it too is tapped out and missing, there will some nice IOU's in there, California style....

These people are completely lawless and out of control. They have and will do ANYTHING to keep the tap flowing, no matter how insane. Makes me wonder if they aren't just doing wringing motions to finish up their last minute plans...


I read up on a poor guy who lived thru Argentina's collapse of the 90's.....I didn't know they too had a "cash for clunkers" program!?!

This is end game shit.....

Whats that Janis Joplin song saying Freedom is just another for nuthin left to lose???
Only this time around....
That's when the shooting will start....

Damned

Man will never be free until the last politician is strangled with the entrails of the last banker - Diderot
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Showtime
Registered User
User ID: 2348
01-09-2010 03:12 AM

Posts: 1,584



Post: #13
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
Omega  Wrote:
Whats that Janis Joplin song saying Freedom is just another for nuthin left to lose???
Only this time around....
That's when the shooting will start....

Damned



How many people do you know who aren't just freakin' seething with barely contained fury right now??? Not anybody with any damn sense!!!!



The people really are governed by their consent, and my consent is wearing thin.

--Me
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Ikaika

User ID: 145
01-09-2010 03:13 AM

Posts: 13,435



Post: #14
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
I have refused the IRA thing at my company,
and that made me a fool.

I kept my mouth shut,
and now they will see,
old Uncle Ikaika was not so stupid.
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User ID: 163 (OP)
01-09-2010 03:15 AM

Posts: 17,775



Post: #15
RE:401k/IRA Screw Job Coming?
Showtime  Wrote:
How many people do you know who aren't just freakin' seething with barely contained fury right now??? Not anybody with any damn sense!!!!

Yup, people are pissed off that's for sure and we ain't done here lmao.....

When it gets bad enough a spark will cause an....issue.....

Ya gotta get Foreign Enemies and Traitors man.....


http://www.enemiesforeignanddomestic.com/

It's real....doomy......lol....

Man will never be free until the last politician is strangled with the entrails of the last banker - Diderot
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