News
news West Africa Ebola crisis 'out of control'
news This Terrifying Swarm Of Flies Is So Massive It Shows Up On Weather Radar
news Rising Seas Threaten Carolina Coastlines
news Bats Have Internal Magnetic Compass and aren't so "Blind"
news Two Ukrainian Fighter Jets Downed Near MH17 Site
news Beetles Kill George Harrison Memorial Tree
news Mother of Cyberbullying Victim Speaks Out
news China 'seals off' town after man dies of bubonic plague
news The Future of Moon Exploration, Lunar Colonies and Humanity
news Fascinating Study of Purported ‘Phone Calls From the Dead’ Phenomena
news McDonald’s, Yum Halt Buying From Chinese Meat Supplier due to Expired Meat

Advertisement



Username:
Password: or Register
 
Thread Rating:
  • 13 Vote(s) - 3.08 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 192943
10-02-2013 01:22 AM

 



Post: #16
furious Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
Advertisement
I support universal health insurance, cos apparently healthcare is pretty darn expensive. And if all are insured it is the best way to keep premiums low.
In my country we have it for many years now already. I pay 110 euro (150 dollar) a month. I make about 1200 euro (1600 dollar) a month so I get 55 euro ( 75 dollar) back from my government.
So I pay 55 euro (75 dollar) a month.
I think the first 350 euro (470 dollar) in the year I get in expenses for healthcare I still have to pay myself.
I also think that sucks, cos I never need healthcare and when I do it is mostly below 470 dollar. So I just pay.
But I understand why we have this system, I understand healthcare is hugely f*cking expensive. People who do need treatment, and I guess there are a lot, they can get brain scans, heart surgery, brain surgery, re-validation treatment and what not. And this apparently costs incredible.

I don't know if these costs can go down. Anytime hospitals get pressured to do things cheaper, it results in people getting fired and less time and effort is spend on patients, nurses getting quotas like only spend max 5 minutes per patient.

I feel like still healthcare can be cheaper, but I don't know exactly where the problem lies. Somewhere in my country it is with healthcare not really being a market and specialist who do surgery and sorts are now self employed and rent themselves too expensive out to hospitals.

2000 dollar in deductibles is a bit insane.
Quote this message in a reply
Advertisement

Elizabeth
lop guest
User ID: 192508
10-02-2013 01:36 AM

 



Post: #17
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
LoP Guest  Wrote: (10-02-2013 12:55 AM)
AquaBrat  Wrote: (10-02-2013 12:47 AM)
It's funny how nooooooooo one is talking about deductibles.

"Oh it's so AFFORDABLE"
"People who could never afford insurance will now be able to go to the doctor"

Right.

They're spending approx. $250ish a month to HAVE insurance, but have at least a $4000 deductible that needs to be satisfied first.

They're screwed... And $250 lighter.

Every plan is individual. It depends on many things, not to mention the fact the MOST Americans make enough to qualify for state supplemental aid which means copays of around 3 dollars for scripts and 5 dollars for visits, NO MORE OUT OF POCKET COSTS

You do realize that a copay is NOT a deductible right?

It is an amount that you have to pay OUT OF POCKET yearly before your insurance will begin covering your cost.

So using OP's example... You would be paying 250$ a month, and will also have to pay 4000$ before your insurance will pay for anything.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?...755AAEiTcu

Some health insurance plans or prescription drug plans have an amount set that the patient is responsible to pay before the insurance will start picing up costs.

So if you have a $1000 deductible, you are responsible for paying out $1000 from your pocket before the insurance will start paying for your health services.
Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 192489
10-02-2013 02:12 AM

 



Post: #18
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
This is one of the many things they don't want to address with Obamacare. The deductibles and out of pocket responsibilities for these plans are a lot worse than what was available before to people who purchase their insurance individually.
The Bronze plan, which is the most affordable, usually carries a $4k-5k deductible per person (I have been told for families it's just two deductibles - so $8k-10k) and a 60/40 out of pocket once the deductible is met with a $12,000 annual max. These plans are NOT HSA compatible, so you might be saving some money on your premiums if you qualify for the subsidy and don't have a problem sucking off the public teet, but you cannot put money into a health savings account to plan ahead for future health costs (with tax benefits).

Maybe people don't understand that - I ran a medical billing department for a few years, so I've been around this terminology. But basically what it means is that you pay the monthly cost of your insurance (Premiums), you pay every time you go to the doctor except for your annual physical, and once you've met your deductible you still have to pay 40% of the bill (after the insurance adjusts for the contracted rate - sometimes this looks like Hospital bills $25,000 for normal vaginal delivery --> Insurance adjusts off $20,000 ---> Insurance pays 60% of 5,000 ---> you pay the other 40%).

A lot of people - my family included - are getting screwed by this law. Yes, there's lots of bleeding heart sophistry about making health care affordable and providing access to lots of people. But I believe it is also making it less accessible to a lot of people. In our case, we're self-employed, purchase our insurance individually and save for health expenses with an HSA. All of our plans are being discontinued as of Jan. 1 and the new plans are a) more expensive that what we have now and b) have worse benefits and c) are mostly non HSA-compatible.

I believe it's a good goal to try and increase peoples' access to insurance. And despite myself, I have to say I would support single payer over this disaster. What we've got here is a class A clusterf#ck where the middle class and self-employed are going to be saddled with the burden of compensating for the masses of low-income, high risk patients who are coming on board. Nothing in this law addresses how to lower the actual cost of medical care (consider for instance, that in the US, we spend more on health care per birth, with some of the worst maternal-fetal outcomes in the civilized world) - and insuring more people on subsidized plans only serves to further isolate the masses from the cost of their care. Now they have little concept of how much doctors and hospitals are billing for their services, and they have little concept of how much their subsidized insurance would cost if they bought it without the subsidy or how much it's costing their fellow citizens. This law also doesn't address the wild inequity of allowing businesses to pay for their employees insurance with tax-free dollars, while preventing individuals from doing the same.

Whatever the problems with our health care system (and there are many) - this is just a mess. And while I fully realize that the congressional republican caucus is packed to the gills with morons and jackasses, I cannot believe that they don't get that delaying the individual mandate a year won't do diddly squat. In CA the insurance companies have been making plans for this change for years and all the changes are rolling into effect NOW and my guess is that will stay the case, whether or not the mandate is delayed.

Our first solution to health care is to throw each and every bum currently in office OUT (except maybe Justin Amash...and Ron Wyden and a few others who's names I cannot remember).
Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 192489
10-02-2013 02:22 AM

 



Post: #19
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
Elizabeth  Wrote: (10-02-2013 01:36 AM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (10-02-2013 12:55 AM)
Every plan is individual. It depends on many things, not to mention the fact the MOST Americans make enough to qualify for state supplemental aid which means copays of around 3 dollars for scripts and 5 dollars for visits, NO MORE OUT OF POCKET COSTS

You do realize that a copay is NOT a deductible right?

It is an amount that you have to pay OUT OF POCKET yearly before your insurance will begin covering your cost.

So using OP's example... You would be paying 250$ a month, and will also have to pay 4000$ before your insurance will pay for anything.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?...755AAEiTcu

Some health insurance plans or prescription drug plans have an amount set that the patient is responsible to pay before the insurance will start picing up costs.

So if you have a $1000 deductible, you are responsible for paying out $1000 from your pocket before the insurance will start paying for your health services.

This is the problem. The unwashed masses have no idea what those things mean.
*Premiums = your monthly cost to be insured. Paid every month, whether you use coverage or not.
*Deductible = the amount you pay out of pocket before your insurance actually starts paying claims. There are exceptions to this, such as most plans will cover an annual physical with little or no out of pocket from you.
*a COPAY is usually a set fee for something - like a $35 copay for a doctor visit or a $5 copay for generic prescription drug. Sometimes these are required in addition to your deductible and sometimes it's just a flat fee.
*This is not the same as CO-INSURANCE, which is your % of responsibility for medical bills after meeting your deductible. In the Bronze plans this is 40%, Silver 30% and so-on. You will pay this co-insurance rate after you meet your deductible, and UNTIL you hit your out of pocket Max, at which point your insurance will cover 100% (until you hit their lifetime benefits cap...which is something totally different ;-)).
*Out of Pocket Max = The maximum amount of $ you pay including your deductible (plus some) in a given period of time. There are annual ones and lifetime ones. Under Obamacare the family annual OOP max is $12,700. This becomes important if you have a family member who requires longer-term care for conditions like cancer or major infections, etc. If you're in the hospital for days or weeks with surgeries, medications, etc, you're looking at hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical care. At that point, you'll be grateful for that OOP max because it means that your insurance will cover 100% of the costs.

The only cost that is going DOWN under Obamacare, and that is only if you qualify for and choose to take the subsidy - is your MONTHLY PREMIUMS.
Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 192461
10-02-2013 02:23 AM

 



Post: #20
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
AquaBrat  Wrote: (10-02-2013 12:47 AM)
It's funny how nooooooooo one is talking about deductibles.

"Oh it's so AFFORDABLE"
"People who could never afford insurance will now be able to go to the doctor"

Right.

They're spending approx. $250ish a month to HAVE insurance, but have at least a $4000 deductible that needs to be satisfied first.

They're screwed... And $250 lighter.

But the after costs are worse, 40% of the total for the bronze but down to 10% for silver.

Remember when having insurance didnt make you fking broke and in debt to the IRS?
Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 192489
10-02-2013 02:27 AM

 



Post: #21
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
LoP Guest  Wrote: (10-02-2013 02:23 AM)
AquaBrat  Wrote: (10-02-2013 12:47 AM)
It's funny how nooooooooo one is talking about deductibles.

"Oh it's so AFFORDABLE"
"People who could never afford insurance will now be able to go to the doctor"

Right.

They're spending approx. $250ish a month to HAVE insurance, but have at least a $4000 deductible that needs to be satisfied first.

They're screwed... And $250 lighter.

But the after costs are worse, 40% of the total for the bronze but down to 10% for silver.

Remember when having insurance didnt make you fking broke and in debt to the IRS?
Dude, what silver plan are you looking at? In CA silver is 30% (which is more in line with the pre-ACA high deductible plans), gold is 20% and platinum is 10 or 0% depending on how much $ you dish out.
Quote this message in a reply
Evil AC
Banned
User ID: 192369
10-02-2013 02:44 AM

Posts: 6,641



Post: #22
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
I think the major problem in the equation is Doctors.

I understand their skill level, years of education and training, and working hours/conditions... but a lot of them make 10 even 20 million+ Dollars a year, which in turn drives up the cost of routine services and equipment. (50 dollar tylenol, 10,000 dollar brain scan...).

There has to be middle ground when you can make 1 to 2 million a year, and get extra doctors around you to help relieve the strss and pressure, and then you can get back to helping people and saving lives, which should be your true love, not extravagant amounts of money.

I also can not call out only doctors when there is also too much greed going on with 'ambulance chasing' lawyers and frivilous lawsuits. Also, the Pharmecutical industry that is also making way too much in profits instead of trying to help humanity, they seem only intersted in profits.


Obamacare does not adress these core issues... instead it 'doubles down' on the already unfair system, and instead just FORCES YOU to participate without consent.

I smell billion Dollar Insurance and Pharmecutical lobbyists all over this...
Quote this message in a reply
Aquabrat
65% of the time it works every time
User ID: 192563
10-02-2013 03:29 AM

Posts: 3,309



Post: #23
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
Elizabeth  Wrote: (10-02-2013 01:36 AM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (10-02-2013 12:55 AM)
Every plan is individual. It depends on many things, not to mention the fact the MOST Americans make enough to qualify for state supplemental aid which means copays of around 3 dollars for scripts and 5 dollars for visits, NO MORE OUT OF POCKET COSTS

You do realize that a copay is NOT a deductible right?

It is an amount that you have to pay OUT OF POCKET yearly before your insurance will begin covering your cost.

So using OP's example... You would be paying 250$ a month, and will also have to pay 4000$ before your insurance will pay for anything.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?...755AAEiTcu

Some health insurance plans or prescription drug plans have an amount set that the patient is responsible to pay before the insurance will start picing up costs.

So if you have a $1000 deductible, you are responsible for paying out $1000 from your pocket before the insurance will start paying for your health services.

Yes..
I have a 4000 deductible and also pay monthly just to have insurance...
I know how hard it is on a family, especially ones with little kids
I have 3 so if they all get sick that's 3 doc visits that I have to pay out of pocket for ( the 3 co pays + the actual cost of the visit) on top of 3 prescriptions... That right there alone can set a family back a month!

That's why I asked about obamacare and the unmentioned deductibles

Things I Don't Have Time For:
1. THAT
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2013 03:31 AM by Aquabrat.) Quote this message in a reply
Aquabrat
65% of the time it works every time
User ID: 192563
10-02-2013 03:34 AM

Posts: 3,309



Post: #24
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
LoP Guest  Wrote: (10-02-2013 02:27 AM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (10-02-2013 02:23 AM)
But the after costs are worse, 40% of the total for the bronze but down to 10% for silver.

Remember when having insurance didnt make you fking broke and in debt to the IRS?
Dude, what silver plan are you looking at? In CA silver is 30% (which is more in line with the pre-ACA high deductible plans), gold is 20% and platinum is 10 or 0% depending on how much $ you dish out.

They're all different state by state

Ph and if you live in ca and go to nm and get sick, are you covered?

Things I Don't Have Time For:
1. THAT
Quote this message in a reply
Stone Soup
Registered User
User ID: 192451
10-02-2013 03:37 AM

Posts: 3,368



Post: #25
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
LoP Guest  Wrote: (10-02-2013 02:12 AM)
This is one of the many things they don't want to address with Obamacare. The deductibles and out of pocket responsibilities for these plans are a lot worse than what was available before to people who purchase their insurance individually.
The Bronze plan, which is the most affordable, usually carries a $4k-5k deductible per person (I have been told for families it's just two deductibles - so $8k-10k) and a 60/40 out of pocket once the deductible is met with a $12,000 annual max. These plans are NOT HSA compatible, so you might be saving some money on your premiums if you qualify for the subsidy and don't have a problem sucking off the public teet, but you cannot put money into a health savings account to plan ahead for future health costs (with tax benefits).

Maybe people don't understand that - I ran a medical billing department for a few years, so I've been around this terminology. But basically what it means is that you pay the monthly cost of your insurance (Premiums), you pay every time you go to the doctor except for your annual physical, and once you've met your deductible you still have to pay 40% of the bill (after the insurance adjusts for the contracted rate - sometimes this looks like Hospital bills $25,000 for normal vaginal delivery --> Insurance adjusts off $20,000 ---> Insurance pays 60% of 5,000 ---> you pay the other 40%).

A lot of people - my family included - are getting screwed by this law. Yes, there's lots of bleeding heart sophistry about making health care affordable and providing access to lots of people. But I believe it is also making it less accessible to a lot of people. In our case, we're self-employed, purchase our insurance individually and save for health expenses with an HSA. All of our plans are being discontinued as of Jan. 1 and the new plans are a) more expensive that what we have now and b) have worse benefits and c) are mostly non HSA-compatible.

I believe it's a good goal to try and increase peoples' access to insurance. And despite myself, I have to say I would support single payer over this disaster. What we've got here is a class A clusterf#ck where the middle class and self-employed are going to be saddled with the burden of compensating for the masses of low-income, high risk patients who are coming on board. Nothing in this law addresses how to lower the actual cost of medical care (consider for instance, that in the US, we spend more on health care per birth, with some of the worst maternal-fetal outcomes in the civilized world) - and insuring more people on subsidized plans only serves to further isolate the masses from the cost of their care. Now they have little concept of how much doctors and hospitals are billing for their services, and they have little concept of how much their subsidized insurance would cost if they bought it without the subsidy or how much it's costing their fellow citizens. This law also doesn't address the wild inequity of allowing businesses to pay for their employees insurance with tax-free dollars, while preventing individuals from doing the same.

Whatever the problems with our health care system (and there are many) - this is just a mess. And while I fully realize that the congressional republican caucus is packed to the gills with morons and jackasses, I cannot believe that they don't get that delaying the individual mandate a year won't do diddly squat. In CA the insurance companies have been making plans for this change for years and all the changes are rolling into effect NOW and my guess is that will stay the case, whether or not the mandate is delayed.

Our first solution to health care is to throw each and every bum currently in office OUT (except maybe Justin Amash...and Ron Wyden and a few others who's names I cannot remember).

post of the day

Good information Anon 192489.

I was also curious about the subsidy. Is that amount right off the top or does a person have to wait to file their taxes?

I'm not considering this insurance plan but I am curious. To me it looks a lot like liability only car insurance. The card you carry keeps you out of trouble with the government. I suppose for some it is the only alternative, but I think it costs way too much money.

What infuriates me is the cost of health care is never discussed. I am old enough to remember a comprehensive doctors office visit, with at least a half an hour with the doc for $15 with no insurance, cash, paid in full, walking out the door. I can see no earthly reason for a similar visit to be so high today.

The warning signs where there when the doctors offices, hospitals and labs starting building resort style buildings. Somebody has to pay for that.

I worked in administration for long term healthcare in the 90's. Believe me, I heard many comments in those corporate meetings, something like "The sky is the limit!"

More recently, medical device manufactures and some of those meetings. "No regulation, we can charge what we want and go up from there." I know one micro part in particular cost 5 cents net to manufacture and they planned to start at $5 a piece. That is quite a mark up.

Who pays? We do.

All truth passes through three stages.
First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.
~Arthur Schopenhauer
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2013 03:40 AM by Stone Soup.) Quote this message in a reply
Helen Keller
Registered User
User ID: 192461
10-02-2013 03:38 AM

Posts: 6,281



Post: #26
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
100 out of 99 users never read the EULA
Quote this message in a reply
PENDULUM
Registered User
User ID: 192396
10-02-2013 03:49 AM

Posts: 2,062



Post: #27
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
I've sought medical (actually dental) care once in the last 10 TEN years, and that was $250 without insurance...

And now they expect me to WHAT?!

One learns more by listening than talking, because what you say, is what you already know......
(This post was last modified: 10-02-2013 03:50 AM by PENDULUM.) Quote this message in a reply
Eagle Kick
Banned
User ID: 192435
10-02-2013 04:00 AM

Posts: 594



Post: #28
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
Karaoke the Kid  Wrote: (10-02-2013 01:19 AM)
Obama kills people- democrat (drone strikes,etc....)
Ted Kennedy- democrat

Democrats started the KKK, Crowe laws, etc.....
Republicans have drifted left of center and have become those democrats.
Democrats have drifted even further left. Now they don't want to enslave one race. They want to enslave all races.
The worm may taste good until they reel in the line and throw you in the bucket. Or use you for chum.

BumpBumpBumpBump
Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 192335
10-02-2013 04:42 AM

 



Post: #29
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
my family insurance is now 780.00 less per year then before, but copays are 5 dollars more. not bad at all.
Quote this message in a reply
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 192492
10-02-2013 04:45 AM

 



Post: #30
Obamacare and the elusive DEDUCTIBLES
ayup...and with the Bronze plan, insurance will only pay 60% of the bill.

gonna pay the penalty? jan 1, 2016 a family will have to cut a check of at least $2084 to the federal government.
Quote this message in a reply












Contact UsConspiracy Forum. No reg. required! Return to TopReturn to ContentRSS Syndication

Valid XHTML 1.0 Transitional Valid CSS 2.1