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CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 428542
06-16-2019 10:17 AM

 




Post: #16
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
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The ghost of capn´crunch  Wrote: (06-16-2019 06:19 AM)
SkeptiSchism  Wrote: (06-16-2019 03:16 AM)
All greenhouse gas models fail to explain the surface temperature of Venus.

nobody has been to venus,

A Russian probe was (at least one).

And anyway they can estimate the height of the TOA with remote sensing and work backwards from lapse rate.
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LoP Guest
lop guest
User ID: 428542
06-16-2019 10:26 AM

 




Post: #17
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-16-2019 03:09 AM)
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-16-2019 03:03 AM)
Well...

Venus isn't a good example of anything.

The TOA of earth (255k point where incoming energy equals outgoing energy or what should be its black body temperature) is about 5.1 km.

Lapse rate is 6.5 K/km. 5.1*6.5+255 = 288.1K which is the average surface temperature.

The TOA on Venus (black body temperature 327.5 K) is somewhere around 50 km. The lapse rate is about 8 K/km. 327.5+8*50 = 727.5 K which is pretty close to the real temperature.

CO2 is heavier and has a higher lapse rate.

Since the atmosphere (93 times earth pressure at the surface) has a high sulfur content and absorbs most incoming light (less than 20 W/m2 reaches the surface), the high temperature at the surface is mostly the result of a high TOA.

The lapse rate is a result of the ideal gas law.

Your ass still can't survive there.....so yea, it IS a good example

Same thing would happen with the earth's atmosphere if it was 93 bar.

No convection and effectively no evaporation (the atmosphere would be saturated and it would be too hot to rain).

The earth would probably only be about 600 K.

At that pressure a relative humidity of a few percent would form permanent clouds and it would be Venus all over again.
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Natura Naturans
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User ID: 497797
06-16-2019 07:42 PM

Posts: 8,066




Post: #18
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
The 800 year lag in CO2 after temperature – graphed
Carbon dioxide follows temperature in the Vostok Ice Cores
In the 1990′s the classic Vostok ice core graph showed temperature and carbon in lock step moving at the same time. It made sense to worry that carbon dioxide did influence temperature. But by 2003 new data came in and it was clear that carbon lagged behind temperature. The link was back to front. Temperatures appear to control carbon, and while it’s possible that carbon also influences temperature these ice cores don’t show much evidence of that. After temperatures rise, on average it takes 800 years before carbon starts to move. The extraordinary thing is that the lag is well accepted by climatologists, yet virtually unknown outside these circles. The fact that temperature leads is not controversial.

http://joannenova.com.au/global-warming-...ore-graph/

“The highest activity a human being can attain is learning for understanding, because to understand is to be free.” --Baruch Spinoza
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The ghost of capn´crunch
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06-16-2019 09:16 PM

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Post: #19
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
LoP Guest  Wrote: (06-16-2019 10:17 AM)
The ghost of capn´crunch  Wrote: (06-16-2019 06:19 AM)
nobody has been to venus,

A Russian probe was (at least one).

And anyway they can estimate the height of the TOA with remote sensing and work backwards from lapse rate.

useless,

[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPbhcJw8mRypdGTnCJHq_...tpxGqpjEbw]
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The ghost of capn´crunch
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06-16-2019 09:17 PM

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Post: #20
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
global warming deniers run out of spin when they are shown chemtrails,

[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRPbhcJw8mRypdGTnCJHq_...tpxGqpjEbw]
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Natura Naturans
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06-16-2019 11:14 PM

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Post: #21
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
The ghost of capn´crunch  Wrote: (06-16-2019 09:17 PM)
global warming deniers run out of spin when they are shown chemtrails,

Chemtrails and global warming are incompatible. If the government controls the weather then the weather would be what the government wanted. There would be no global warming. So you can't maintain there is global warming if there is also chemtrails. Truth is they are both a crock. How you managed to find two crocks to push says something about your lack of research.

“The highest activity a human being can attain is learning for understanding, because to understand is to be free.” --Baruch Spinoza
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2019 11:15 PM by Natura Naturans.) Quote this message in a reply
Lord DunLOP
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06-17-2019 07:26 AM

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Post: #22
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
Why do you persist? The facts show the planet is warming as predicted by science.

The science and mechanism by which carbon dioxide traps heat in the atmosphere is commonly referred to as the "greenhouse effect." Stated very simply, carbon dioxide, or CO2, is nearly transparent to the solar radiation emitted from the sun, but partially opaque to the thermal radiation emitted by the earth. As such, it allows incoming solar radiation from the sun to pass through it and warm the earth's surface. The earth's surface, in turn, emits a portion of this energy upwards toward space as longer wavelength or thermal radiation. Some of this thermal radiation is absorbed and re-radiated by the atmosphere's CO2 molecules back toward earth's surface, providing an additional source of heat energy.

As far as chemtrailing goes, worried scientist started searching for ways to circumvent the problem of spewing millions of tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every hour of every day many decade ago.

Patent

Welsbach Seeding is a patented climate engineering method, involving seeding the stratosphere with small (10 to 100 micron) metal oxide particles (thorium dioxide, Aluminium oxide). The purpose of the Welsbach seeding would be to "(reduce) atmospheric warming due to the greenhouse effect resulting from a greenhouse gases layer", by converting radiative energy at near-infrared wavelengths into radiation at far-infrared wavelengths, permitting some of the converted radiation to escape into space, thus cooling the atmosphere. The seeding as described would be performed by airplanes at altitudes between 7 and 13 kilometres.

The method was patented by Hughes Aircraft Company in 1991, US patent 5003186. Quote from the patent:

"Global warming has been a great concern of many environmental scientists. Scientists believe that the greenhouse effect is responsible for global warming. Greatly increased amounts of heat-trapping gases have been generated since the Industrial Revolution. These gases, such as CO2, CFC, and methane, accumulate in the atmosphere and allow sunlight to stream in freely but block heat from escaping (greenhouse effect). These gases are relatively transparent to sunshine but absorb strongly the long-wavelength infrared radiation released by the earth"

It's the Environment, stupid.
______________________________________

The finish-line of the Rat Race lays in
Oblivion.
______________________________________

I Stink Therefore I Am.

[Image: 2t3VmEL.png]

(This post was last modified: 06-17-2019 07:29 AM by Lord DunLOP.) Quote this message in a reply
Skippy
Writer for the NY Times
User ID: 402368
06-17-2019 07:34 AM

Posts: 6,930




Post: #23
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
Even the noobs know you're shilling. I'm embarrassed for you. You should get a hobby. I recommend RC copters.
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⚡WATCH3R⚡
...
User ID: 504506
06-17-2019 07:35 AM

Posts: 7,676




Post: #24
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
I like the cold.

Meat lasts longer.

[Image: hannibal-tee-design.jpg]
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Natura Naturans
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06-17-2019 07:07 PM

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Post: #25
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
‘Consensus’? 200+ New 2019 Papers Support A Skeptical Position On Climate Alarmism

https://notrickszone.com/2019/06/17/cons...-alarmism/

“The highest activity a human being can attain is learning for understanding, because to understand is to be free.” --Baruch Spinoza
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Natura Naturans
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06-17-2019 11:11 PM

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Post: #26
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
“In summary, the trend signal in hurricane activity has not yet had time to rise above the background variability of natural processes. Manmade climate change may have caused changes in hurricane activity that are not yet detectable due to the small magnitude of these changes compared to estimated natural variability, or due to observational limitations. But at this point, there is no convincing evidence that manmade global warming has caused a change in hurricane activity.”

https://judithcurry.com/2019/06/13/extremes/

“The highest activity a human being can attain is learning for understanding, because to understand is to be free.” --Baruch Spinoza
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Lord DunLOP
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06-17-2019 11:53 PM

Posts: 813




Post: #27
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
[Image: uB19byb.png]

The only proof of Global Warming anybody needs is PROOF of Global Warming itself.

Study the graph because there you have it. It makes all your inane sidebar silliness moot.

It's the Environment, stupid.
______________________________________

The finish-line of the Rat Race lays in
Oblivion.
______________________________________

I Stink Therefore I Am.

[Image: 2t3VmEL.png]

Quote this message in a reply
Natura Naturans
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User ID: 497797
06-18-2019 12:17 AM

Posts: 8,066




Post: #28
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
Lord DunLOP  Wrote: (06-17-2019 11:53 PM)
[Image: uB19byb.png]

The only proof of Global Warming anybody needs is PROOF of Global Warming itself.

Study the graph because there you have it. It makes all your inane sidebar silliness moot.

You have chosen the most tampered with temperature record, NASA's and you have chosen to end the record at the peak of the 2016 El Nino. So what happened after 2016? Even in Gistemp temperatures WENT DOWN:

[Image: 213551_5_.png]

As you can see in Figure 1 above, there has been rapid cooling from that El Niño-induced peak in 2016, and the global temperature is now approaching what it was before the event. Had there not been an El Niño event in 2015 and 2016, creating a spike in global temperature, it is likely Schmidt wouldn’t get a “confirming” answer for a 15-year temperature trend. As you can see in the figure above on Panel B, the peak occurred in early 2016, and the data trend before that was essentially flat.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles...rming.html

Here is the BEST temperature record, the satellite record of University of Huntsville:

[Image: UAH_LT_1979_thru_May_2019_v6-550x317.jpg]

The temperature is only .32 of a degree warmer than average, swallowed up in the margin of error so there is no real evidence for ANY global warming.

http://www.drroyspencer.com/2019/06/uah-...-32-deg-c/

“The highest activity a human being can attain is learning for understanding, because to understand is to be free.” --Baruch Spinoza
(This post was last modified: 06-18-2019 12:20 AM by Natura Naturans.) Quote this message in a reply
tamarack
lop guest
User ID: 494132
06-18-2019 12:43 AM

 




Post: #29
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
Natura Naturans  Wrote: (06-18-2019 12:17 AM)
Lord DunLOP  Wrote: (06-17-2019 11:53 PM)
link to image: https://i.imgur.com/uB19byb.png

The only proof of Global Warming anybody needs is PROOF of Global Warming itself.

Study the graph because there you have it. It makes all your inane sidebar silliness moot.

You have chosen the most tampered with temperature record, NASA's and you have chosen to end the record at the peak of the 2016 El Nino. So what happened after 2016? Even in Gistemp temperatures WENT DOWN:

link to image: https://www.americanthinker.com/images/b...551_5_.png

As you can see in Figure 1 above, there has been rapid cooling from that El Niño-induced peak in 2016, and the global temperature is now approaching what it was before the event. Had there not been an El Niño event in 2015 and 2016, creating a spike in global temperature, it is likely Schmidt wouldn’t get a “confirming” answer for a 15-year temperature trend. As you can see in the figure above on Panel B, the peak occurred in early 2016, and the data trend before that was essentially flat.

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles...rming.html

Here is the BEST temperature record, the satellite record of University of Huntsville:

link to image: http://www.drroyspencer.com/wp-content/u...50x317.jpg

The temperature is only .32 of a degree warmer than average, swallowed up in the margin of error so there is no real evidence for ANY global warming.

http://www.drroyspencer.com/2019/06/uah-...-32-deg-c/

As if NASA accurately knows what global temps. were in 1880.

That's scientific fraud.

There were weather recording stations in various places, but global?
LOL!
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tamarack
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User ID: 494132
06-18-2019 12:46 AM

 




Post: #30
RE: CO2 lags Temperature On All Time Scales
Anyone ever stop to think that urban heat islands and highways might
raise temperatures at recording stations?

That alone would jack temps 1C.
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